Fini
Powerline has acknowledged that the e-mail I posted is indeed real. Thus, I believe that the matter of authenticity is settled and I see no need for doing anything like posting a screenshot or the like.
Many people have been calling for John Hinderaker's head, for a complaint to the bar, or other such actions in response to this. I am not interested in doing any of these things. The whole purpose (to me, anyway) was to highlight what I tend to think of as the coarsening of discourse and the dehumanization of other people through technology. In an era where words can travel around the world in seconds and thousands of people can descend upon a news story in the blink of an eye, it is very easy to give in to impulse and say something that isn't respectful because you're replying to a computer screen, not a person's face. I would not characterize my e-mail to Powerline as "hate mail", and I certainly did not do anything like call him at his workplace, but I am sure that their blog receives their fair share of abuse, as does any blog of any political stripe. Easy as it may be to give into this impulse, it doesn't help to do so.
He has said that he will not make the same mistake twice. I hope that this is the case, and it is really all I want to see out of this.
posted by MN Politics Guru @ 18:15
31 Comments:
Rest assured that the unamerican right wing frat boys over at lowpowerline will continue to blast your blog.
The whole purpose (to me, anyway) was to highlight what I tend to think of as the coarsening of discourse and the dehumanization of other people through technology. In an era where words can travel around the world in seconds and thousands of people can descend upon a news story in the blink of an eye, it is very easy to give in to impulse and say something that isn't respectful because you're replying to a computer screen, not a person's face.Ironic. Perhaps you'd have a different opinion had you been on the receiving end of what Mr. Hinderaker was receiving from your fellow liberals.
Off-hand remark: why does Blogger drop my line breaks after HTML tags?
I've received my fair share from conservatives the past couple days. I don't feel any differently. I was always taught to be the better person and ignore these things, not go down to their level.
Standard right wing procedure to make up stories about victimization. I doubt if half of what he wrote about the evil liberals calling and hassling him is even remotely true.
I hope that this is the case, and it is really all I want to see out of this. Very graciously said. I apologize for doubting your veracity yesterday.
actually, it would be nice if you also included the context in which he sent that e-mail. i.e. the virulent e-mail and phone calls he has been receiving lately.
oh boo hoo, Hinderaker got nasty emails. As if only conservatives get nasty emails from those big bad liberals. Grow up. And his lame excuse for blasting someone who didn't write a nasty email is because other people sent him nasty emails. It's the old 'he made me do it' excuse. Very juvenile and typical of not taking responsibility for your own actions. I don't let my teenager get away with that one.
When are you going to admit that you were wrong when you said:
"Of course, you blatantly ignore the most important issue, the one that is easily found on hundreds of blogs covering the story: how did a person using a fake name get access to the White House?"
I have followed this topic with much ammusment, it is typical, of the neo-conzies that have seized control of this country! They are beyond the law, beyond common decency, and beyond the laws of the Christian relegion they claim to be so much in tune with!
Here we have the typical neo-conzie using abusive language in an effort to defuse a valid point made by his opponent, when called to task, he and his trolls whom hide as anonymous individuals, attack the opponet and try to make them the bad guys!
The American public wanted bush in the office, so they will get what they wanted from him! God save the USA!
I aprreciate seeing your graciousness in this matter. I would think no matter how many nasty emails I received, I would still be able to ignore the abusive ones and respond correctly to the non-abusive ones (of course, that would assume that my small blog EVER get emails). As a conservative, I think he was wrong. He thinks he was wrong, and you have graciously left it at that. Perhaps there is hope for the dialogue to become less course.
It's always good to see that there are indeed decent bloggers out there of any political persuasion. While I do question the need for you to have posted his e-mail up on his site if you don't want to sink to anyone's level, it's good to see that you are responding to Rocketman's apology as well as you are.
I'm sure that just as Powerline has been recieving hatemail and the like, you recieved similar treatment at the "hands" of the conservative side of the blogiverse. Unfortunately, it's impossible to keep people like that out of global discourse and out of our groupings. I'd apologize for their actions, if they were in any way representative of the decent people I share beliefs and opinions with. They are not.
I'm sure the decent people on your side of the fence think similarly about people not unlike the two anonymous posters and redterror in this comment section.
Anonymous, Powerline was not giving an excuse for his actions, otherwise he wouldn't have apologized and admitted he made a mistake. He instead, was giving a reason. The reason being that Powerline was being inundated with hatemail and abusive phonecalls. You, of course, doubt the truthfullness of such statements. I have seen in several other blogs who are "proud members of the reality based community" commenters calling for hatemail raids on Powerline and phone calls to his office. It's happening, and it's undoubtedly going to continue happening.
To these offensive members of the so-called reality based community, I challenge you to live up to your motto and accept the reality that there will always be elements of any side that will take things too far. Much like there will always be a part of any side that looks down upon those elements like the unwanted in-laws they are.
To do anything less invalidates everything you supposedly stand for.
And I know this post won't make one bit of difference.
Color me unimpressed.
Sure Hindrocket apoligzed and expressed regret which shows the modicum of maturity I would expect from a partner at a major law firm. But really, that email was pure 7th grade.
However his excuse that he was angry over some phone calls rings a bit hollow, has he no control over his emotions?
This is a person who has stated, quite clearly, that Jimmy Carter and the entire deomcratic party is on the side of the terrorists. This is intelligent discourse? If you are going to accuse half the country of treason then you ought to be able to take the heat that comes with that kind of rhetoric. If Kos or Atrios began loudly proclaiming that Republican support terror, and GHW Bush is a terrorist, do you think they would get any hate mail from the right?
The man spews hate, he made his own bed and now, like so many victimhood conservatives, cries like a baby when he has to lie in it.
>>Perhaps you'd have a different opinion had you been on the receiving end of what Mr. Hinderaker was receiving from your fellow liberals.<<
Aw, cry me a river. Rightwingers like to pontificate about personal responsibility, but never take any. Hindrocket should have ignored the trolls and acted like a grown-up. And if he can't take the heat, he shouldn't go around sliming people as traitors.
If you rightwingers want a more civilized discourse, then you're welcome to start being more civilized whenever you want. Most moderates and liberals will follow.
But you don't get a one-way street. You get get to spew filth and venom, and get none in return. Wake up, that's not the way the world works.
Rightwingers have been vomiting out hatred for years -- Limbaugh, Coulter, Savage, and Freerepublic come immediately to mind. Hindrocket himself called former President Carter a traitor to the US based on a false story. They make the nastiest personal attacks, call everyone who disagrees with them un-American, and lie without shame. And make no mistake about it, any left-leaning blogger gets gets a daily helping of obscenity-laden filth from rightingers.
So if you're really interested in a more civilized discourse, and a more respectful civic atmosphere, then I'm on your side. But it won't be a one-sided disarmament this time.
You rightwingers like to throw mud, but you whine and cry "no fair" when it gets thrown back. Well, tough. If you really value civility, be civilized. If you want a street fight, expect one back. Take some personal responsibility.
The fact of it is, Hindrocket simply can't take the heat. He's whining like a schoolkid who got caught being a bully on the playground. "But I got picked on tooooooo, really I did! So I took it out on this fella who had nothing to do with it at all and who seemed polite! And now I'm getting punished! Waaah!" Like all bullies, he is basically a coward and a wuss.
CORRECTION. Sentence should have read:
"You DON'T get to spew filth and venom, and get none in return. "
I made this typo 'cause I was angry, 'cause the other kids were teasing me, and calling me stuff, and....boohooooooo! (following Hindrocket's puny excuse)
Very gracious acceptance of the non-apology. You're a gentleman.
Maybe I should have phrased that "legal apology." Hinkrinder's a lawyer. Maybe people did write to his employer; maybe his employer had a word or two with him... who knows? It sounds like the kind of apology an unapologetic and truculant 8 year old gives when his mother says, "Now, you go and apologize to Timmy."
What appalls me most about this incident is how this lawyer cried foul when he received hate-mail (hate-mail = a vastly stupid, counter-productive and empty exercise) but speaks most hatefully about liberals and Democrats on his website, with regularity. I don't mean he disagrees with others' opinions. I mean he uses terms like "bottomless depravity of liberals in America." Unqualified... not "some" liberals.
Eww... it just makes me shudder. Even worse, his employer actually allows him to represent their firm this way.
Placing your real name on a site as full of vitriol as Powerline is the same as placing a big 'kick me' sign on your back.
One would hope that by the age of 55, a person has engaged in at least a minimum of navel gazing with the goal of examining who and how he/she is, and what to do to be a better citizen. It's the whole unexamined life thing that Socrates talked about. Benefits of self examination include putting checks on the ego, acting with dignity and grace when you let your inner jerk out of the house, and developing more constructive avenues for your midlife frustrations than submlimating them into a political hate site.
I love the way the right wingers have been howling that the Hindraker e-mail must have been a fake, while simultaneously accepting without question every sob story they hear about "leftists" writing hate mail or making nasty phone calls. Double standard maybe...?
Sorry guys, I read the Powerline post and I didn't see an apology. He was just saying that he regretted not turning it over to the Freeper's for action.
Hindrocket on liberals:
"By "the left" I'm including almost the entire Democratic Party, you can count the exceptions on your fingers, you can name them, Zell Miller, Joe Lieberman...The whole mainstream of the party is engaged in an effort that is a betrayal of America, what they care about is not winning the war on terror...I don't think they care about the danger to us as Americans or the danger to people in other countries. They care about power."
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2005_02_20_digbysblog_archive.html#110903362014702796
And on Jimmy Carter:
"Jimmy Carter isn't just misguided or ill-informed. He's on the other side."
As a veteran this sort of stuff makes my blood boil.
Why can't readers accept an apology and move on?
Pat said...
When are you going to admit that you were wrong when you said:
"Of course, you blatantly ignore the most important issue, the one that is easily found on hundreds of blogs covering the story: how did a person using a fake name get access to the White House?"
10:16 PM
Because he wasn't wrong Pat. It's obvious somebody at the WH knew who he was but if you read E&P interviews with Ari and Scott they both said they didn't know that "Jeff Gannon" was not his real name. The name on his pass was his fake name. If he could get access with his fake name then why are married women reporters who use their maiden names professionally issued a press pass with their married names. This is not a double standard?
And Rob, Hinderacker most certainly was giving an excuse for his behavior. He said he recognized he shouldn't have sent the email but only in the context of he didn't realize it would be posted. He also did not apologize to mn politics guru because he said he didn't ask for an apology. If you are indeed sorry for what you've done, you apologize because you know what you did is wrong not because someone asks you to. If you wait for someone to ask you, then you aren't really sorry. He's sorry because it reflected badly on him. Plain and simple.
As somebody's favorite Bubba once said, 'a dog yelps when it's hurt'.
And so when we hear some whining from the rightwing about their favorite gay prostitute/fake journalist, we know the criticism has hit home.
Keep the pressure on, maybe this story will get better. Who's hindrocket did Gannon service to get press privileges?
Inquiring minds want to know.
"The name on his pass was his fake name. If he could get access with his fake name then why are married women reporters who use their maiden names professionally issued a press pass with their married names. This is not a double standard?"
Quoting from the E&P interview with McClellan:
"He was cleared in and received day passes under his legal name," said McClellan, "In terms of the news organization, he showed he represented a news organization that published regularly, and it was not a process I was involved in."
What was the name on his pass Pat? It wasn't his "legal" name (Guckert) it was his fake name (Gannon).
WH's Scott McClellan Says He Knew 'Gannon' Was Guckert
By E&P Staff
Published: February 10, 2005 2:35 PM ET
McClellan admitted today that he knew that "Jeff Gannon" was not the reporter's real name. Yet at numerous televised press briefings he addressed him as "Jeff."
Then he says-
McClellan Tells 'E&P' He Didn't Know Guckert Used Fake Name for Nearly Two Years
By Joe Strupp
Published: February 16, 2005 3:00 PM ET
NEW YORK Talon News reporter James D. Guckert got to ask questions at White House press briefings for nearly two years, but White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan didn't know he was using an alias until the past few weeks, McClellan told E&P today.
Hello?
There are NO names on Day Passes.
::sigh::
I'm just going to go buy some more shares of Reynolds Aluminium. Foil must be selling really well to the "Gannon is just another part of the EvilGeniusRoves Zionist Conspiracy to subvert America into a Fascist Theocracy" crowd.
Sheesh
Darleen
Anonymous says: And so when we hear some whining from the rightwing about their favorite gay prostitute/fake journalist, we know the criticism has hit homeThat isn't the criterion you should use. As you honestly admit, you are playing the gay prostitute card because you perceive it to be gaining you political mileage. I am not quite sure that this is going where you want it to go, or that you are yet politically savvy enough to figure that out. As an unaffiliated moderate, I am watching on the side lines.
I personally think you'll probably need to do better than "Democrats--the party of gay bashers" to reclaim the middle third of the voting populace. Or to bitterly complain about how the unamerican right-wing rethuglicans and BushHitlerMcChimp are resorting to ad hominem attacks. Whatever else you dudes are, irony challenged is definitely among them.
I tend to agree with Powerline's point of view on this subject; however, I find that e-mail unnecessarily unhinged, embodying everything that the powerline guys complain about in e-mails they get from unhinged liberals.
I think that you behaved very civily in this exchange; I just wanted to let you know that not all of us right of centers are loonies; and to let you know that you've got my support.
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